BBC: “Is Homosexuality Un-African?

This weekend the BBC World Service (on satellite TV and its radio service) will broadcast an edited version of a debate on gay rights in Africa. The debate was taped in Johannesburg, South Africa.” The key focus of the debate was: ” Is Homosexuality Un-African?”   We know the answer to that question: No it is not.

The pre-publicity for the debate suggests the host and panelists would tackle more useful questions:

What is the evidence of pre-colonial gay and lesbian people in Africa? Is there any evidence to back up the claim that Westerners are importing or recruiting Africans to homosexuality?  Is there evidence instead that modern-day Christian evangelists are the ones importing homophobia to the continent?

Who has the right to define what is acceptable culturally or ethically in Africa?  Do religious leaders have a monopoly on ethics?  How should traditions be interpreted or adapted to serve present-day African societies?

If it’s not possible to reconcile some religious beliefs with sexual diversity and freedoms, is it at least possible for diverse views and practices to be tolerated.   How do we build a society in which diversity is embraced and difference is not seen as a threat?  Isn’t this quite simply a human rights issue?

The panelists are David Bahati, the author of the Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda (see more on his bigotry, here), former Botswana President Festus Mogae (I did not know he had a position on gay rights; apparently he does), Eusebius Mckaiser (a gay rights activist and lecturer from South Africa), Paula Akugizibwe (a Rwandan national and with the Aids Rights Alliance for Southern Africa) as well as Sideeqah Tunde-Lawal (a leader of the Ansar’U-Deen Youth Association of Nigeria). The host is the BBC’s Zeinab Badawi.

Here are the listed viewing times:
BBC World News Television:

Saturday 12th March, 09:10 GMT
Saturday 12th March, 22:10 GMT
Sunday 13th March 15:10 GMT

The program will also be broadcast on BBC World Service Radio.

Saturday 12th March 18:06 GMT
Sunday 13th March 13:06 GMT

If you can’t make it, the South African site My Big Debate–it produced similar programs for South Africa’s ETV including one with South Africans on gay rights–promised it will post the edited debate on its website sometime next week.

* The image is from Benedicte Desrus’ Persecution of Homosexuality in Uganda, on show in New York City from next week onwards.

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35 thoughts on “BBC: “Is Homosexuality Un-African?

  1. ONE QUESTION WE NEED TO ANSWER IS WHETHER OR NOT SODOMY WILL SET MAN ON THE ROAD TO EXTINCTION. IF OUR FOREBEARS MADE SO MUCH HEAVY-WEATHER OF LEGALIZING SODOMY AS WE DO NOW WLD U HAVE BEEN BORN?
    IF YOU TALK ABT HUMANNESS- HW ABT KLEPTOMANIACS,SCHIZOS ETC- THEY SHLD BE LET OFF TO”EXPRESS THEIR FEELINGS”!

  2. Bravo Bahati am proud of you ..very proud you were there for a purpose …you stood your ground bravely …my heart bleeds for a day of reckoning is coming when all those voices will remember you and they will wish they listened

    • I’m also very proud of him.We need more of him in africa because this is something we all african have to put stop to. It’s very much un-african!

  3. I think it is wonderful finally to see homosexuality being discussed openly by Africans. Only when we talk about it can the truth concerning it be revealed to those who choose to cling to archaic views that do not stand up to modern rationality and scientific knowledge.

    For those who think that “sodomy” will set man on the “road to extinction”, it may be well advised for you to go and do some studying before you come and expose your lack of knowledge in public.

    Sodomy and homosexuality are not the same thing. And homosexuality has been with mankind for as long as human race has existed on the face of this planet. However, instead of extinction, what mankind is faced with today is overpopulation, together the very real threat of a serious shortage of resources to cater for an overpopulated planet within the near future. We should not allow our sensibilities to becloud our judgement.

    • so by your logic homosexuality should be condoned because it helps to curb population growth??? then we might as well embrace all the wars going on around the world and let them go on unabated afterall, they’re reducing the population
      You claim that homosexuality has existed on the face on the earth for so long, so has murder, and we know when exactly murder started, with Cain and Abel and just as murder is/was frowned upon then and now, so is homosexuality.
      Here’s an idea, if you’re lucky enough to have any relatives above the age of 65 still alive, or any elderly person who isn’t a homosexual of course, go ask them what they think of homosexuality, see what they say.
      Modern rationale!?! we’re not going to compromise our moral values just because some one its now “cool” to be gay.
      As for scientific knowledge, heres some scientific knowledge for you, its a proven fact that the anus is an exit only, this is why it hurts when homosexuals are having sex and why after sometime they need operations to fix their sphincter muscles, women only get such operations for their vaginas in cases of rape which to my understanding has to have been very violent and possibly more than 1 rapist, i.e when they have been violated. so basically this only happens when there is “misuse”
      And as for whether i am knowledgable, since your basis of knowledge is whether or not people know what sodomy means, sodomy is anal rape

      • Femi Ayandokun,
        Your caps lock key is stuck.

        S3nsei,
        so by your logic homosexuality should be condoned because it helps to curb population growth???

        You missed the point. Femi, like you anti-homosexual bigots often do, made the case that “legalising sodomy” would lead us to extinction. Fellow bigot David Bahati also went with the argument that homosexuality would lead to problems with population. As you acknowledge homosexuality has been with us for as long as humanity has been here. Therefore, homosexuality cannot be a danger to world population. This particular reason given for objecting to homosexuality is absurd.

        sodomy is anal rape

        No, it is anal sexual intercourse. It would only be rape in those instances where it is non-consensual. We should, of course, be against all non-consensual sex. But that’s no reason to tell consenting adults what to do, or to punish them when they engage in consensual activity.
        Not all homosexuals engage in anal sex, anyway. You seem naive about sex matters.

  4. Well, it really isn’t necessary to dignify your comment with a substantive response. The comment speaks for itself.

    However, its important to make the point (since you so obviously missed it), is that homosexuality is not a modern ‘invention’. There have been individuals of a homosexual disposition through out the known history of mankind. Despite this, the world’s population is at its highest level ever, so the prospect of extinction for mankind because some individuals are inclined towards same-gender attraction is not only ridiculous, its profoundly silly!

    • @steve parkes i realise now that i misunderstood what Anengiyefa was getting at with the population issue, i was misled when he/she expounded on the point of over population and the shortage of resources, my bad.
      Also it was my understanding that same sex intercourse was still referred to as sex and only the non consensual act as sodomy, I stand corrected, being hetero you can understand my lack of a detailed insight in the sexual activities of homosexuals.
      the other thing, I did not say all homosexuals engage in sodomy, my not mentioning of lesbians sexual acts or my focusing more on the males side of them can be attributed to my even far less knowledge of what they do beyond cunnilingus so I guess you’re right, I am naive of sex matters, at least the ones involving homosexuals.
      I only talked about population because you brought it up, and i only talked about it basing on what I thought you had said, not that i agree with the Bahati population argument. My argument is that is unnatural, nonreligious and Immoral.
      At no point did I say homosexuality is a modern invention, if you read through you’ll see that Mr. Steve observed that i agree its not a recent development, what i talked about was your point of modern rationale, modern reasoning or thinking… So generally what you’re trying to say is that accepting homosexuality is the modern thing to do. Understand that you can not “modernise” morals or religions so they can accommodate something you like or think they should accept

      • Also it was my understanding that same sex intercourse was still referred to as sex and only the non consensual act as sodomy, I stand corrected, being hetero you can understand my lack of a detailed insight in the sexual activities of homosexuals.

        It’s not even necessarily homosexual. The word derives from the Latin “Sodoma” which refers to the biblical city. It technically refers to either anal or oral copulation with man or woman, although current usage is almost exclusively reserved for anal intercourse. A woman could consent to anal copulation and it would be sodomy, but not rape.

        My argument is that is unnatural, nonreligious and Immoral.

        Justifying something as immoral by saying it is immoral is known as a “begging the question” fallacy. Obviously you think it’s “immoral”. The point is, why?

        As for “nonreligious”, so? Lots of things are nonreligious – are they all bad? Many people are secular these days, and even those who aren’t are divided into many different religions which don’t have agreement on moral issues. You would have to argue why your particular religious view should be imposed on others, and it’s hard to see how you would do that without using invalid arguments such as “argument from authority”, or the “begging the question” fallacy again.

        I don’t know what you mean by “unnatural” in this context. It’s not supernatural, is it? If it’s unnatural, why does it happen? Unnatural would be flying to the moon on a unicorn. Two people who find each other attractive, and find companionship and love, is not unnatural. People are naturally attracted to people, and if they happen to be attracted to people of the same sex, what does that matter to you? They’re not trying to harm you. You, on the other hand, seem accepting of them being harmed. You want consenting adults to be imprisoned or tortured or killed because of free choices they make. That, I submit, is the more unnatural position. It is contrived, it is about unnecessary hate and intolerance of the other, and it is something we can change.

        So generally what you’re trying to say is that accepting homosexuality is the modern thing to do. Understand that you can not “modernise” morals or religions so they can accommodate something you like or think they should accept

        Most religions change, Catholicism and protestant Christianity included (in fact, Protestant denominations by definition require variance from the orthodoxy to exist). Previous societies have allowed homosexuality. Accepting homosexuality isn’t so much the modern thing to do, as it is the human thing to do.

  5. And on the question of whether homosexuality is “un-African”, human sexuality knows no geographical association. African homosexual people have not succumbed to the “white man’s way,” but express an entirely human and natural variation of human sexuality.

    The compulsory heterosexuality that holds sway in Africa today goes hand-in-hand with colonialism. There is ample evidence to show that homosexuality is indigenous to Africa, just as it is indigenous to every other place that human society has been found. Indeed, it is the black homophobe who has absorbed a false and hurtful European ideology.

  6. I am actually wondering why those people are allowed to congregate when no other panelist will be bold enough to air opposing views anyway.More importantly why invite people who will basically use the same talking points.

    Before you accuse me of being homo friendly , let me remind you that there are lesbians and gays , people in between called bi. I believe in the Kinsey scale of sexuality , cos sexuality is just as fluid as any other feature in our body despite the fact that most of us are strictly heterosexual.
    The discussion never evolves as we still end up using sodomy as a key talking point to shut down the discussion despite the fact that lesbians do not practice it. What I don’t understand is that the homos make up 1% of the african population, yet people focus so much on them. Like poverty and AIDS are non issues.

  7. Homosexual is not only Un-African, it is very Un- Universe and Un-Godly.
    It is a Taboo.
    God bless all the leaders in the world who have refused to change the dictionary meaning of Mother AND Father, or marriage which is a union of a man and a woman.
    It is unspeakable of the amount of emotional trauma suffered by any child who sees his/her friends call their parents Mummy and Daddy(woman&man) while they live with same sex parents also calling a man mummy and a woman daddy. God help the World. Amen.

    • Thanks Mary, as an observer i think i like your points (Mother and Father). when God created this world; he made every thing perfect and absolutely natural……. i mean anus is not the right place to push your dick; it has its on purpose. Those people practicing homosexual should consider some sort of brain repair or just gave up and follow the right path.

  8. What is so African about the computer you are using to condemn people?
    what is so African about the religion or the bible you are using?
    what is so African about hatred you poses?

    If thats the Africa you are proud of then am sorry you are mistaken coz Africa never introduced the technology u r using,not the religion or bible you choose to read upside down nor the homophobia that you have coz the Africa I know is a place with no hatred but African brotherhood……so stop fooling yourselves about homosexuality being an African coz we all know its homophobia that is an African.Why is it that we didnt have laws criminalizing homos before the colonialist came,the bible your r using is it African or it was written and brought here by the Christians from the west who had their own conservative views.
    Yo have the right to priase the Bahati’s of this world but hope the Bible that praise mostly wont hold you accountable in the end my brothers and sisters.

    • Thank you, Kasha Jacqueline. You save me from a long reply to the others, to the uninformed, to the ones who worship hate, and call it African. You show how ridiculous they are. You show that the sources of such homophobia, and such vile and ugly violence against people for what has absolutely always been, and none of their business, are NOT African. When will such people, as the conservative Christians who preach hatred and violence against their brothers and sisters (is that what Christ did? oh, please) take responsibility for the horrific acts that come from these attitudes? When will they mind their own business? As they— cheat on their heterosexual spouses; as they abuse their children; as they hide their own “lapses”; as they tolerate the violence that Christ never espoused… and why? What makes these people feel so good about harming others who do them no harm? What in themselves terrifies them, horrifies them so much that they flee their own small hate-filled souls and point their fingers out at others as the source of their discomfort? In this world of poverty and sorrow, where the majority of crime, of rape and violence, has its source in heterosexuals, who has time for this kind of hatred and violence against gay people? Where are their brains? Nothing of great Africa in these attitudes. Nothing. Thank you, and may the struggle there and here and everywhere for the end of violence against people who have done no wrong, by the self-anointed with only hatred in their souls (ultimately, self-hatred), be successful. May those who harm others, and espouse such harm for their sexuality be tied up and stopped, their voices weaker every day, their own inner chains wrapped around them and stopping their violent hands. We know there is power in love to do this, and so it is.

    • I don’t believe in the bible and I don’t have a religion but I believe in our african ancestors and their way of life. You’re right that Africa didn’t introduce the technology of the world and not even the bible. But do we just have to embrace homosexuality because Europe and the America have, eventhough we know it go against our way of life? The Africa I know believe in the union of a marriage between a man and a woman. The west introduced the bible that go against homosexuality. And now they are telling us that homosexuality is completely normal. I perfer the way of my ancestors and homosexuality is NOT a part of it. And don’t tell me otherwise.

      • Man you bigots sure like your logical fallacies. An ‘appeal to tradition’ is akin to ‘appeal to authority’ and is an invalid form of argument. Besides, you didn’t even provide any evidence of what your ancestors thought – have you polled them? Homosexuality has existed wherever there has been humans. You need to provide an argument (a valid one!) as to why your personal dislike of other people’s private activities is cause for harm to be inflicted on them. So far in this comments section there’s been: Appeal to authority, appeal to tradition, begging the question, and a non-sequitur about it being “unnatural”, and of look, a straw man argument coming up:

        But do we just have to embrace homosexuality because Europe and the America have,

        No one made the case that you should “embrace” homosexuality just because Europe and the America have. You should embrace tolerance, yes, and as it happens much of Europe and parts of America to varying degrees.

        .The Africa I know believe in the union of a marriage between a man and a woman.

        Fine, get married. You do realise that the vast majority of Africans will remain heterosexual, right? No one wants to change that. We just don’t want you to oppress those minority who happen to be different.

      • Really, one does get fed up with these tired homophobic arguments that have no basis in fact. The majority of the human population is heterosexual, therefore men who are straight will continue to pursue and MARRY women who desire to be married by straight men! The marriage institution is not under threat, so please go about your heterosexual amorous business and leave homosexual men and women alone.

        Although you are entitled to your opinion, it is irrelevant that you don’t like the idea of same sex relationships, since a consensual relationship between two adults where no one’s rights are infringed is nobody’s business, save for that of the adults concerned. Mind your own business, get married to your heterosexual man and leave homosexuals alone!

        Talking about our ancestors, you have only made this comment because your knowledge of your history is that which was devised for you by your former colonial masters. There were traditions of homosexuality in numerous indigenous African societies. It was the colonialists who came and told us that it was bad, quoting their Bible. Do some reading and expand your knowledge, so that your opinions are informed by fact.

  9. Have u taken a moment to dig into the depth of the meaning of Un-African?Isnt English as a language so colonial?And who knows u just aint gay whatsoever bt practice beastiality,adultery,prostitution,cultism,?or masturbate,murder,or one of the potential sorcerers or witches?Is that so biblical n religeously upright?Or may be u do not do that bt hw many verses in the Bible cn u refer to at d moment wthout u first opening it?
    Mr./Mrs. Holy,whatsoever u think of as being a perfect being,according to the few scriptures you managed to grasp,have u you forgotten so easily that judgement is for God alone n that when you judge another person you sin and that no sin is bigger than the other?You could even be mistreating your step-son/daughter which is sin because the Bible calls on us to love one another!Iam proud to be a trans,and i do not feeel bad abt it-because this is me,myself and i,u can not tell me how to live my life!
    Remember,Jesus and the Bible you are emphasizing are for sinners not perfectionists.Whoever thinks like Bahati,needs mental help,…….so help us God.

    • S3nsei,

      Logically i find myself agreeing to a great extent with your arguments and yet I find myself still opposed to homosexuality.

      That would be the signal to acknowledge an irrational objection to homosexuality. (If you’re in logical agreement but still want to oppose, it’s by definition irrational.) You wouldn’t like it if someone with a different moral or religious perspective imposed their views on your life, would you? If Muslims made you pray in mosques? At the end of the day, no one’s saying you have to like homosexuality. We just want you to be opposed to laws that oppress it.

      However I would like to point out that the protestant church came about when King Henry VIII was refused by the catholic Church to divorce his wife and marry a new one as the sacrament of marriage must not be broken except in death.

      That’s Anglican, not all protestants, surely? I thought Martin Luther preceded Henry VIII’s separation from Rome. The Anglican Church mirrors the Catholic Church’s organisational set up pretty closely, but that’s less true of some other denominations.

      Luther had genuine theological disagreements with Rome. Most religions have moral differences to each other, and religions of today with the same religion of the past. Most Christians today don’t accept the morality of burning witches at the stake.

      As for my unnatural point i meant in the sense of the anus is opposed to entry unlike with a vagina and yes i realise this is only focused on male gays.

      The mouth is an entry point, however. So you aren’t opposed to gays, as long as they don’t engage in anal sex?

      Not everyone says they should be harmed ,i for one don’t as you seem to have assumed.

      Fair enough. You seemed to agree with the same line of reasoning as those here supporting David Bahati’s stand, which is oppressive. But if you are against harming gays for being gay, that’s something.

      But what everyone also needs to understand that besides people basing on religion and cultures, homosexuals have actually painted a bad name for themselves in Africa, recruiting does happen, as much as you don’t want to believe it, it does.

      If the problem is sexual molestation of children, have laws against that – in fact you probably do. Heterosexual men (and less often it seems, women) also abuse children. Also, there’s a worldwide problem with the trafficking of women for ‘prostitution” (really, sexual slavery). No one would consider framing laws banning adult heterosexual intercourse just to deal with the problem of sex trafficking. Again, we should all be against sexual abuse, non-consensual sex, and exploitation of children. None of that has anything to do with the activities of consenting adults.

      …in Africa you’re either a Christian or a Muslim, the greater percentage of the population falls under these two brackets and the ones who don’t are probably in African traditional religions or just their cultures which too don’t condone homosexuality.

      First, as has been pointed out, Christianity and (and Islam for that matter) are imports to Africa from outside cultures, so arguments based on what the Bible or Koran supposedly say are not relevant to the question posed. As for “traditional cultures”, I’m not at all sure that traditional African cultures are innately anti-homosexual. Anengiyefa points this out here, and this isn’t the first time I’ve seen this mentioned.

      So knowing all this ask yourself again, “Is homosexuality UnAfrican”

      No. Certainly no more than Christianity itself is.

      • Maybe I don’t get what UnAfrican really is, how far back in African are we going??? because basing on the life of Tertullian a Christian theologist, christianity was in North Africa by the 2nd Century. Islam goes back to the 7th Century when Mohammed Allah’s prophet was still alive.
        Considering they’ve been in Africa for this many generations, how UnAfrican are these religions? I really don’t see how you can throw out the religious point of view in this argument.
        On your point of sex offenders, yes there are laws against it, but you see the system isnt as transparent as it is out in the states and the Europe, we don’t have lists of sex offenders, most of the police is incompetent and resources are scarce , kids are too scared to even report things like that more so same sex crimes, we can barely feed our entire population. And yes they would all qualify as sex crimes anywhere else but in Africa a homosexual sex crime seems to carry more weight than a heterosexual sex crime. If you had two cases of rape, a man raped a 15 yr old girl and a man raped a 17 yr old boy you can be sure the sentencing or punishments would not be the same.

        Anyway a lot is going to be said in all these discussions on the reasons for and against it at the end of the day, for me, the concept of same sex relationships will never sit well with me, I have enough composure to live with but I’m going to make an effort to make sure its as far away from me as I can get it, this is why I back the Anti gay campaign.
        Infact if I was in a position of power i would implement the “don’t ask don’t tell” policy they had in the US army for my country, that way it stays quiet and everyone minds their own business.

  10. @Steve Parkes why you disabled the reply option on your posts i fail to understand because for one you seem very open to discussion so I figure you would have preferred the responses come directly to you.
    Anyway seeing as you’re quiet active on this blog entry, I’m sure you will see this.

    Logically i find myself agreeing to a great extent with your arguments and yet I find myself still opposed to homosexuality.
    However I would like to point out that the protestant church came about when King Henry VIII was refused by the catholic Church to divorce his wife and marry a new one as the sacrament of marriage must not be broken except in death. The protestants were already rebelling against the ways of the catholic church and the King acknowledged their existence and declared them a church as a maneuver to let him divorce his wife as they would (protestants), being a secret society at the time and not by choice, they were willing to for the King’s approval. Thing is they got their church but its just a watered down version of the Catholics, they got rid of various rituals but the doctrines remain the same. I’m a protestant in case u were wondering, in my country, religion is inherited from your fathers side of the family, and our forefathers from which ever missionaries landed in their regions. My point is religion does not change enough to accept things it considers sin unless there is “foul play”.

    As for my unnatural point i meant in the sense of the anus is opposed to entry unlike with a vagina and yes i realise this is only focused on male gays.

    I would like to mention that I am from Uganda, We are a population of just over 30 million, the general population is anti-gay but just as in any other large number people opinions vary especially when it comes to how to deal with the situation for lack of a better word.
    Not everyone says they should be harmed ,i for one don’t as you seem to have assumed. I am only bothered by their presence when I happen to witness public displays of affection between men and i don’t mean hugging, I find myself indifferent to lesbians, i realise this is a double standard but it is what it is. I wouldn’t even be here if they kept their business behind closed doors after all, all they’re doing is sinning, i must have committed a few of my own today.
    But what everyone also needs to understand that besides people basing on religion and cultures, homosexuals have actually painted a bad name for themselves in Africa, recruiting does happen, as much as you don’t want to believe it, it does. I’ll bring to you attention the story of Pastor Eddie long from Georgia and the boys he molested, the same way he offered them a better life, this is exactly what the recruiters do, considering the greater extent of our populations are living below the poverty line u can understand how large sums of money the foreigner presents are very tempting to a young impressionable mind. The hope for a way out of the impoverished situation they live in, this is what the “recruiters” prey on, anywhere else this is considered a sex crime, in Africa there are cases where 15 yr olds are married off with parents consent, we’re very much against it but we understand it. For the men taking boys people categorise this with everything homosexual. That coupled with religion and culture is not going to win you any points in Africa.
    In my high school, a boarding school (most of them are in Uganda) there were quiet a number of cases of young boys being molested by older boys, stories from the girls were almost non existent and this didn’t only happen in my school, most of the others too. This might also factor into my lesbian bias.

    The way i see it, this is not something you can talk to people about and they come to understand it, there are too many factors in play in Africa for it to be that easy. Even in the states and Europe, you will find that most of the people who support homosexuality are not christians or muslims in Africa you’re either a Christian or a Muslim, the greater percentage of the population falls under these two brackets and the ones who don’t are probably in African traditional religions or just their cultures which too don’t condone homosexuality. So knowing all this ask yourself again, “Is homosexuality UnAfrican”

    • No, you should ask yourself whether Christianity is African! For someone who believes without a doubt that the first act of murder to occur on the face of this planet was that of the biblical Abel by his brother Cain, a story which in actuality is straight out of Hebrew mythology, it is not surprising how conflicting and utterly ridiculous your comments have been.

      I look forward to a time when people like you will be able to present more cogent arguments that are not based on speculation, conjecture, falsehood, half-truths and mere sentimentality. A short while ago you were pontificating on the meaning of the word “sodomy” only to come back later to tell us that you don’t really know what it means.

      The sensible man who knows that he knows little, keeps quiet and strives to acquire as much knowledge as he can about a subject before he attempts to discuss it. If everyone did this, there would be greater understanding and more agreement, even if agreement means that people agree to disagree.

      • Considering you’re of the opinion that the story of Cain and Abel is from Greek mythology, i guess this is the point where we agree to disagree. For one i know nothing about Greek mythology and should not be expected to, what I do know is what the Bible tells me.
        Otherwise this becomes like an argument between those who believe in the Big bang as the beginning of evolution vs those who believe in God created all that is.
        Another thing, in response to your sensible man comment, the chances that you’re only ever going to have arguments with people that are your intellectual equals are very slim, personally i believe in having my opinion heard and I’m willing to learn and be corrected. This is how it works, at least this is how I have been drought up. Growing up, people have always told me, you can’t really learn with out practice, consider this me practicing

    • S3nsei asks: “@Steve Parkes why you disabled the reply option on your posts ”

      I haven’t disabled anything deliberately. I just post the comments, and tick the “Notify me of follow-up comments via email” box. I don’t no why the “reply” option doesn’t come up, but I would prefer it did. This post is an experiment – let’s see what happens if I tick nothing…

  11. S3nsei,
    I see your post is also sans “reply” option. Must be that we can only reply to a reply so many times. I’ll just post straight at the end of the comments from now on.

    Considering they’ve been in Africa for this many generations, how UnAfrican are these religions?

    They are not un-African, but neither are they native to Africa. So using the precepts of an imported system/organisation like Islam or Christianity to argue homosexuality is un-African is flawed. Homosexuality is something that has been part of human societies for as long as there have been humans. There’s simply no reason to accept the case that homosexuality is especially “un-African”, any more than it’s un-Asian, un-European, un-American, un-Pacific Island, or un-Western.

    I don’t throw out the religious point of view per se, I simply hold it to the same standard as any other point of view in the debate. Merely saying “Christianity tells us it’s wrong” doesn’t cut it. Islam tells us Jesus was a minor prophet; any Christians gonna by that? Thought not.

    Besides, many countries have both strong religious adherence and tolerance of homosexuality. Brazil is religious (especially Christian) and yet homosexuality there is legal, there’s a high profile gay community, and same sex couples can adopt.

    The idea that because African nations tend to be predominantly Christian or Muslim means homosexuality is peculiarly un-African is nonsensical.

  12. S3nei, that the story of Cain and Abel is from Hebrew mythology is not my opinion, it is fact!

    My advice continues to be that arguing vociferously, although ignorantly, on internet forums is not the way to learn. Since you have accepted that your knowledge and understanding are limited, the way forward for you should be to seek out the correct information concerning this subject, so that your opinions are informed by facts!

    I have little appetite for engaging in debate with people who believe blindly, yet don’t know why and cannot defend their position convincingly.

    • I’m a bit confused over the Cain and Abel thing – didn’t S3nsei say it was from Greek mythology, while you actually said Hebrew? The Bible was originally written in Hebrew and Greek, but the respective mythologies of their cultures are not the same.

      • Well, yes, I did say Hebrew mythology although S3nei came back with a reply to my comment in which he referred to Greek mythology. It just shows doesn’t it that those with a propensity to argue blindly tend not to pay attention to detail.

        The Christian Bible was written in Greek, but the Adam and Eve , Cain and Abel story is from the Jewish Torah and the Talmud, which precede the Christian Bible.

  13. @Anengiyefa Actually I meant to say Hebrew mythology as I was speaking in reference to what you had said, I’m not sure why I typed Greek.

  14. Homosexuality is un-African and probably inhumane too. The Bible condemns it and besides, it is very unnatural. But, we as Africans have to be conscious of the fact that homosexuals should not be treated as though they are animals(being murdered for example). I rather think that all efforts should be made to make them change and be normal, methods such as psychiatric and psychological treatment especially with the help of religion. It is a better way of solving the problem rather than butchering people. If murdering them is the solution, then what makes us Africans different from Hitler in Nazi Germany purifying the so called Ayran race from the ‘foul’ Jews?

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